Curse

Sujoy · Feb 17, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Is it just me, or the Minions HP degenrates faster then ever... I'd be willing to suppose 2x faster?

Osi Ri S · Feb 17, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39

i dont know but it seems like Anet wants to nerf MM into nothing. First they nerf Vateras Sacrifice to Oblivion, that along with 10 minion cap (wasnt completely bad). THEN they nerf Jagged bones to crap. THEN they make paragon shouts only work on party members (no "Stand Your Ground" for minions *snif*) then this (if they really did do this) i dont see the justification.
/rant

O well at least we still have Order of the Undead (crap shouldnt have said that, in about a week that will be destroyed :/)

Shuuda · Feb 17, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

well, 2 things:

1: MMs needed a bit of a nerf because of the whole "Easy way out of a mission", nerfing MMs could make PvE more challenging(Which is what most people want)

2: MMs still work fine, they were fine before Jagged bones, they are after.

Arkantos · Feb 17, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

MMs need nerfing? 10 minion limit and verata's sacrifice. MMs have been nerfed ALOT since what they used to be...no need to kill them.

Turbobusa · Feb 17, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I had problems keeping my army up the other day, maybe thats related.
need to find some test to verify this

Sujoy · Feb 17, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Its like If I dont spam BotM... my minions just die.

Cathode_Reborn · Feb 17, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Can anyone confirm this? It sounds like people are just seeing things, but not sure yet.

If this is true, I might say it's probably for the better. An MM can pretty much steam roll mobs in almost every mission. The're also really easy to play, which seems kinda like a prob considering how much damage they can do, etc.

EDIT: Just tested, everything seems the same.

Ozric · Feb 20, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Seems the same to me, and since when don't you spam BoTM anyway?

Just capped OoU over the weekend and checked it out in Tombs,...well, I say I just checked it out, but it's like crack now.

Ridiculously overpowered. Huge mobs being erased in no time. Rangers with jaws dropped, the monk wondering wth going on with the mm's health. Good stuff.

Naf Olbaid · Feb 20, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

The aim of a MM is to constantly refresh his minions before they get to the stage of being in "uber degen mode". Just hit those create minion buttons every time theres a corpse available, and your oldest minion will automatically die and be replaced by a fresh, healthier one.

Osi Ri S · Feb 20, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric

Seems the same to me, and since when don't you spam BoTM anyway?

Just capped OoU over the weekend and checked it out in Tombs,...well, I say I just checked it out, but it's like crack now.

Ridiculously overpowered. Huge mobs being erased in no time. Rangers with jaws dropped, the monk wondering wth going on with the mm's health. Good stuff.

I know what you mean lol. I cant stand to MM without OoU now, im too spoiled with it.

flyinhigh · Feb 22, 2007, 07:04 AM // 07:04

just tested on the isle of the nameless, lvl 18 bone horrors vamp horrors and fiends all lasts 1:24 with out any healing. same as always.

BryanM · Feb 22, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

MMs need nerfing? 10 minion limit and verata's sacrifice. MMs have been nerfed ALOT since what they used to be...no need to kill them.

Minion Masters have never been nerfed. They were buffed like hell. Verata's Sacrifice was complete crap compared to the blood of the master they handed us back instead. I don't ever remember maintaining 60 minions with maximum degen by pushing one button over and over.

Minions do need deserve to be nerfed. Let's do the test:

1. Is anything else better than this build in PvE in general use?

The answer is no. If there are exploitable corpses, you use them. Death is one attribute, you can do ANYTHING else you want in PvE that uses a single line. Shambling and Fiend = 2 skill slots, another for Blood of the Master if you will. Death Nova if you happen to be an AI. No other Death skills are "worth" using. 10-12 in the other attribute.

As long as Soul Reaping is as massively overpowered as it is, you have no excuse to use anything but a necromancer in general PvE teams.

Realistically how should they be nerfed?

1. Minion cap of 5-6. They'd have about the same dps as a warrior in that case, and still offer a good measure of the team defense they give right now.
2. Blood of the Master should be pulled down in the heal by 3/4's, or moved to blood.
3. You should only be able to reap the souls of your own minions.

Even then, they'd still be worth using. So worth it.

It'd be nice for them to deal with the Soul Reaping issue and make Jagged Bones usable again. It was cool having Death be an active (instead of passive) damage line.

Cathode_Reborn · Feb 23, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanM

Minion Masters have never been nerfed. They were buffed like hell. Verata's Sacrifice was complete crap compared to the blood of the master they handed us back instead. I don't ever remember maintaining 60 minions with maximum degen by pushing one button over and over.

...O_o

MM's have been nerfed tons of times. I can't remember the last time they got buffed. Verata's is crap now, but used to be awesome back then.

Btw, that's exacly what people did. For the fun of it, you'd go to a low level area and completely kill everything and rack up on as many minions as you can since there was no limit. Or go to the Isle of the Nameless and kill all the wooden targets for easy corpses.

Anyways, I do agree.....MM's need another nerf. Every pve nec is now an MM. A pve nec who isn't an MM is actually pretty rare now. Just about everyone has a lvl20 Olias who's also set to MM. They're extremely effective yet require almost no skill or effort to use.

Reduce the minion cap again, or make it much harder to keep up 10 minions.

Crazyvietguy · Feb 23, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

IMO MMing is a talent, a decent MM needs to know what they are doing. Sure any MM can just hit Blood of the master until they are bleeding from the ears but a good MM can literally cripple an opposing mob. So if you nerf Minion Masters you probably should nerf fire magic users because they make up a large precentage of the PvE community and if used right can be devastating. The reason MMing is so popular is because it is the THE MOST effective build a casual player can use. So until something else comes out that is as versatile and effective as MMing its here to stay.

I dont even play an MM but i definently dont think they cap should be lowered or make it any harder to use minions. We dont need the necros popularity to move into PvE Mesmer range.

BryanM · Feb 23, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

MM's have been nerfed tons of times.

Verata's sacrifice was made annoying to use, and useless to anyone who plans on controlling minions. Minion factories now have a limit.

The Minion Master, as a character, was buffed into the stratosphere. Blood of the Master is forty times as powerful as the old Verata's.

Shambling Lobster is completely better than Bone Horrors. The recharge is significant, but comes up in about the ratio you'd want to make melee and fiends. Power creep for the win.

jayce · Feb 23, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanM

As long as Soul Reaping is as massively overpowered as it is, you have no excuse to use anything but a necromancer in general PvE teams.

It'd be nice for them to deal with the Soul Reaping issue and make Jagged Bones usable again. It was cool having Death be an active (instead of passive) damage line.

here we go again, but i will cut right to the chase. there is no problem with soul reaping. this is about minion degen, but we somehow ended up in soul reaping wonderland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Anyways, I do agree.....MM's need another nerf. Every pve nec is now an MM. A pve nec who isn't an MM is actually pretty rare now. Just about everyone has a lvl20 Olias who's also set to MM. They're extremely effective yet require almost no skill or effort to use.

Reduce the minion cap again, or make it much harder to keep up 10 minions.

so let me get this straight. just because the majority of necromancers enjoy playing mainly as the class's defining role, then we should nerf it, again? and what does this have to do with minion degen?

Jayce Of Underworld

------------------------------------------------

Animate Soul Lich
Energy: 25
Cast: 3
Recharge: 0

Elite Skill. Animate a level 1...14 Soul Lich
at your location and you lose all energy. You
suffer -1 energy regeneration for each Soul Lich
you control. Whenever a Soul Lich you control
deals damage, you gain 2 energy.(Soul Reaping)

Cathode_Reborn · Feb 23, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayce

so let me get this straight. just because the majority of necromancers enjoy playing mainly as the class's defining role, then we should nerf it, again? and what does this have to do with minion degen?

Lots of people enjoy playing overpowered builds, especially when they require little effort to run. Every pve ele loves using Fire magic, but Fire magic isn't overpowered like MM'ing is. It's really easy to MM, yet you'll probably be doing the most damage out of everyone in your party. You could also easily save your monks tons of work/energy when the stupid ai starts attacking the minions, and even waste harmful hexes on them. Once you got 10 minions up, the rest of your party won't have to do much cause the minions alone will make short work of everything. But, it's only pve so it doesn't really matter. Doesn't mean I'm askin that they be nerfed into oblivion.

Btw, this has nothin to do with minion degen, but oh well

Arkantos · Feb 23, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

MM's need to be nerfed because they are overpowered in PvE? WOOOOW. There are so many things overpowered in PvE, why doesn't anyone whine about them? I honestly don't know why people want to nerf PvE builds. MM's affect nobody. They have been nerfed alot of times. Leave them be. If you think MM's are overpowered and make PvE 100x easier, then don't use them.

flyinhigh · Feb 23, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

here is a thought, if MM'ing is the easy way out and it takes no challenge and you want a harder game, go blood. no one is holding a gun to your head saying MM OR DIE! and MM'ing is not the build for everywhere, any monster that does decent aoe dmg can destroy a minion army.

Miss Eisei · Feb 23, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanM

3. You should only be able to reap the souls of your own minions.

HAHA
what a joke to play necro in that case, soul reaping would be useless for anything else then a mm, messing up soul reaping more then it already is would make necros kinda useless, and yes i say its messed up, cause there isnt alot of good stuff under the attribute of soul reaping, only good part is that u gain nrg from deaths